Re: Atene, che forno!
quoto al 100%! Ormai lo abbiamo capito... lui usa i numeri a piacere suoi.... come li piace a lui. Vedi io ho inviato una mail all HNMS chiedendo per la Tmax. assoluta di tutti i tempi in grecia ca. 3 settimane fa, ed ancora non ho ricevuto una risposta.Originariamente Scritto da dedalus27
Io non sono come lui che dice che i 48,5°C di Catenanuova non esistono, ma dico solo che ho dubbi sul 48°C dell 1977. la grecia con la 26 non ha mai fatto piu quel valore, so che non vuol dire per forza qualcosa ma e una mia teoria. In ogni caso siviglia citta' e piu calda di atene citta. Chissa quale sara' il prossimo forum meteo
europeo dove lui andra a dire che atene e la citta piu calda d'europa.... forse quello portoghese.e proprio non serio fare paragone tra stazione in campagna aperta lontana dalla citta' ad un stazione in centro di una citta'. Nessun meteorologo serio lo avrebbe fatto.
Re: Atene, che forno!
Yeah boys, our friend "Mesa" cheats also in reporting and interpreting the contents of an academic paper. He says he is phd candidate, but personally I do not believe that. If fact I asked him to qualify properly himself. In academia many bullshits are said, written, presented in international conferences, and published, but intentionally mystifying things as he is doing is not admitted and he would be kicked the ass. A scientist looks for the truth.
In the next days I'll spend some time in surfing websites of London academic institutions doctorates in climatology in search for Greek students. So we get the name and surname of this self-claimed academic-affiliated guy that, in my opinion (based on interpreting how he shows to think), actually works in a McDonalds or something like that.
A quick note on Mesa cheating about the paper. He reports sentences suggesting that the UHI impacts only tmin, but not tmed, and hence tmax highs and tmed means are valid. In my opinion that's wrong, because the scarce impact of UHI on tmed in the greek paper may be only apparent. The construction of Greek means = (tmin+tmax+th8 +th14+th20) / 5 is biased upwards, because there are 3 day-time temperature (tmax+th8+th14) samples and only two night-time samples (tmin+th20). In my opinion the impact of UHI on mean temperatures is not detected by that funny (but most scientific) mean construction because even if night-time temperature increased, that mean has only two night-time samples inside.
I am still investigating this point, I am replicating the study of how those means behave on Athens stations (the result based on my data is not strong because of distance and different climatic factors, slope, humidity, etc etc).
Now another note on Mesegeiakos cheating about the paper: he previously said that Athens is windy, perhaps wind can remove UHI and make readings accurate. Now let's see what autors actually say.
(Katsolulis & Theohratos 1985: 1300-1301) say tht "Athens is subjected to high wind speeds; e.g., the mean wind speed is approximately 3-4 m s^(-1), especially in winter and summer months. So it can be thought that the wind action, even if not entirely covering up the effect of the urban heat island, causes a reduction of deltaT(u-r) differences with respect to those that could be observed in the case of calm conditions"
Yes boys, what they are actually saying is that as those figures in table 3 of 2-4°C UHI (that I corrected for altitude and reduced to 1.6-2°C in the 1961-1982 time interval) are mean values, when wind stops, these values can be even stronger. The mean UHI effect we see in table 3 of the paper refers to a city with 3-4 m s^(-1) and are computed on measurements done with that mean wind, as it is Athens mean wind. When winds stops, the UHI must be really heavy there.
Now I ask one favor to dedalus 27. Please take a look of the table here: would you subscribe the July Sevilla S.Pablo means I report there? Are they OK or are they wrong? I got them from Tutiempo.net
If Sevilla means are correct, they suggest that in very recent years, Sevilla airport in July was not cooler than Athens seaside quartiers at similar elevation (I got those stations with the aim do remove the effect of different altitudes). But remember that Sevilla is monitored outside UHI and these stations are inside UHI, maybe one of them (Palaio Falhro) has a reasonable distance from buidings, and the other is among buildings).Codice:mean temperatures, July 2006-2009 --------------------------------------------------- Athens Athens Sevilla Year Palaio Falhro Kalamaki S.Pablo --------------------------------------------------- 2006 27,3 27.4 30,0 2007 30,5 29.9 29,1 2008 29,0 28.7 28,4 2009 29,0 28.7 28,8 --------------------------------------------------- mean 29,0 28.7 29,1 ---------------------------------------------------
Edit: Sevilla means are got from Tutiempo; Athens means come from Wunderground (IALIMOSA1) and http://www.meteorologia.gr/WS/Kalama.../kalamaki.html
Both Athens stations are Davis VP.
Ultima modifica di Borat; 25/07/2010 alle 11:11
Re: Atene, che forno!
Ma che Kalamaki e che everest??
Borat,what Kalamaki stations and Oz land stations?We are talking about junk Davis stations that even give Athens an average of 30.0 or 27.7 from place to place.
Borat while I appreciate the effort to discredit me you are totally clueless of Athens when you compare Kalamakion the coast with San Pablo
Look at other junk Davis stations with 29.5 last year in Gkazi next to Thiseio from the station of the National Observatory of Athens
http://penteli.meteo.gr/meteosearch/...ns/2009-07.txt
Look at the 29.6 so far for this year for Gkazi again from the station of the Observatory
Look at the 29.8 so far for this July for Neos Kosmos next to the centre of Athens again from the station of the Observatory
http://penteli.meteo.gr/stations/neoskosmos/NOAAMO.TXT
But who cares to compare junk stations that gave 51 in Lamia in 2007 when in WMO stations Thiseio beats again last year clearly everyone and by far!!!
Who care for the bullshit of junk automatic stations without WMO id?Only you and maybe 3-4 others that want to proove 1)Aosta is the coldest city in Italy 2)Athens is not the warmest city in Europe.Come on get a grip. Compare WMO stations with WMO stations and not junk stations with WMO stations
And stop accusing me of lying just because you are unable to proove that Athens is not warm.It is low
2009.jpg
Instead of trying to accuse me that I am a liar just because you can not proove that Thiseio means are inflated and it is impossibile to find a city warmer than Athens I suggest to find an academic publication that say that Thiseio means are infected by UHI when it comes to mean temps...Spare us with the ''magic Borat analysis'' and provide an academic reference for Thiseio
Ultima modifica di mesogeiakos; 25/07/2010 alle 13:05
Re: Atene, che forno!
Si,Minimum temperatures not average
Temperature minime.Dove dice medie??
Dedalus get over it.Atene e la citta piu calda in estate anche con la isola urbana
Re: Atene, che forno!
E ancora una volta dove e stato piu caldo mediamente in Europa secondo i statione WMO?
Ma come sempre in Atene
Ecco i dati di Thiseio ieri Tmax 38.5 Tmin 27.9
thiseio.png
This.jpg
T media 33.2 ancora una volta
This.jpg
Ciao di Atene!!
Re: Atene, che forno!
Borat ecco i dati di Thiseio da 2001
Now compare these with Sevilla,Cordoba or infact Mars!!
Shall we start??
Dati di Thiseio,Atene WMO station 16714 secondo l'Osservatorio di Atene
2001
36.1°C
24.9°C
2002
35.2°C
25.4°C
2003
35.2°C
25.1°C
2004
34.8°C
24.6°C
2005
35.1°C
24.7°C
2006
33.4°C
23.9°C
2007
36.5°C
25.9°C
2008
34.7°C
24.8°C
2009
34.9°C
25.0°C
Medie 2001-2009 per Luglio
Tmax: 35.1°C
Tmin: 24.9°C
Tmed:30.0°C
Allora Borat, do you believe that these are the official averages or not?try me
Dai mi dati di AEMET...I dont want junk data from tutiempo that give 51.0C in Lamia or 46.0 as the record of Elefsina!!!Waiting!!
Ultima modifica di mesogeiakos; 25/07/2010 alle 13:20
Re: Atene, che forno!
Now I modify the table above and I add another station in Athens, but the one I add is a WMO station. It is Athens-Helenikon Airport (Metar LGAT, WMO id 16716).
METAR/Synop Information for LGAT in Athen Helenikon Airport, Greece
ACME Mapper 2.0
Don't ask me why a WMO id has been recognized to a station placed on a site like that, urban, surrounded by asphalt, cement, buildings and roads. I believed that WMO stations were gold-plated stations. This evidence can raise the suspect that sometimes WMO stations are misplaced and then their dara are sometimes climatologically unreliable or at least questionable like the Thiseio ones. In my opinion the WMO station was there before the city reached thata airport area, and it was involved in the UHI progressively, day by day.
But let's look at the table
OK, I change my opinion. Sevilla/rural (airport) kills by one shot three Athens urban stations. It is like throwing three cats into the cage of the tiger.Codice:Mean temperatures, June 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 (°C) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Athens Athens Athens Airport Sevilla Year Palaio Falhro Kalamaki LGAT S.Pablo ----------------------------------------------------------------- 2006 27,3 27.4 27.4 30,0 2007 30,5 29.9 29.8 29,1 2008 29,0 28.7 28.7 28,4 2009 29,0 28.7 28.6 28,8 ----------------------------------------------------------------- mean 29,0 28.7 28.6 29,1 -----------------------------------------------------------------
For a while Meso had persuaded me that Athens was perhaps the warmest city in Europe, but now (after collecting informations about how Greek means are constructed - biased upwards because of the different number of samples between day and night - and after collecting informations about the strong Athens urban heat island) I am persuaded that Sevilla is very very likely to be warmer than Athens, and then it is very likely the warmest city in Europe, at least in July.
Just kidding of course, 4 years can't be very significant. We need, say, 30 years of data with means estimated by the use of the same calculations.
The table above suggests nevertheless that in the mean of the last years, Sevilla in July has been warmer than Athens at similar elevation despite of Athens UHI - that perhaps at LGAT metar is not as strong as it is in the central Athens. Monitoring that other town next to Sevilla, still warmer than Sevilla, would be very interesting. I reccomend placing at least a datalogger there.
Notice one detail: the two junk Davis stations are not too far away from LGAT, and they have almost the same means: when they differ from the metar, they overestimate its means.
Re: Atene, che forno!
Ieri Catania-Sigonella:
Catania-Sigonella airport, 24 July.jpg
Media Catania-Sigonella: 33,4ēC.
Media ATene-Thisio: 33,1ēC (dati pubblicati da Mesogeiakos. Non so la loro validitā). Bye bye, centro di Atene
Catania-Sigonella area per l'aeroporto non č urbano (lo stesso vale per Siviglia-aeroporto e cordoba-aeroporto)!
Thisio Atene si trova nel centro geografico della cittā!
Catania and Sigonella airport.jpg
Che paragone assurdo! Mesogeiakos, la tua imparzialitā č zero.
Ultima modifica di dedalus27; 25/07/2010 alle 14:26
Re: Atene, che forno!
Titolare del documento scientifico utilizzato da Mesogeiakos:
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/...I%3E2.0.CO%3B2
Atene, Isola di caldo.jpg
Re: Atene, che forno!
I think data from Seville-airport are true.
AEMET (National Meteorological Services of Spain):
Valores extremos - Agencia Estatal de Meteorología - AEMET. Gobierno de Espaņa
Luglio 2006, Siviglia-aeroporto 30,0ēC.
Nel centro di Siviglia, Chi lo sa? Forse 32ēC, 33ēC...
Ultima modifica di dedalus27; 25/07/2010 alle 14:44
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