Atene, che forno!

[Borat]

A quick note.

Watch the table in the 1985 paper


Now let's compute the NOAA mean for 1860-1890

mean tmin1860-1890 = (8.23+27.41) / 2 = 17.82

Now let's compute the NOAA mean for 1958-1982:

mean1958-1982= (9.27+27.43) / 2 = 18.35

The first mean fits, but the second mean does not fit the value on the table.

Maybe a typo in the table, or, less likely, an effect of the calculation method.

But according to the NOAA calculation method, in the last years of the series (1958-1982) the overall mean computed for Thiseio is not equal to the 1860-1890, it is greater instead.

I want the raw data to check by my hands and my software that stuff.

Mesa, please after providing me the informations about your doctoral committe, let also me have the daily raw Thiseio data, if possible for the period 1860-2009. Thanks in advance.

[mesogeiakos]

1) no UHI at Thiseio: Thiseio has UHI, sized 1.4°C in tmin at 4 million population
2) Thiseio is non urban station. Thiseio is labeled urban by Greek researchers, and maps show in full evidence it is a minuscle hill surrounded by million pepople and just 35 meters higher that the city just North-west from it
3) Thiseio is representative for Athens. Thiseio is on top-hill position with 35 meters altitude difference with Kotjia square. Which percentage of Athens is in top-hill position in such a way? Watching at the maps, only some small parts. Remember that a top hill position deflates tmin, and a so small altitude difference can 1) protect the site from shadowing and negative UHI 2) impatc only for few tenth of °C the tmax because of altitude increase.
4) Greek method of computing means in the most scientific and does not inflate means. My data, finally, suggest that this "Greek" method (but in my opinion it was very common) maybe is more scientific in form, but it leads to the same results of the standard NOAA method of computation for tmed. Compared to contemporary integration methods, it inflates mean temperatures in all months of the year. Here a quick exemple by season, still my data.

1.I never said there is no UHI,I have said that the UHI is almost totally eliminated by the Tmax decrease in Thiseio.

This is what the Observatory says for Thiseio and not for wider Athens.




So I fail to see how by twisting the words of the paper and my words you expect that in a way you have academically discredited a paper based on calculations without having the data of each and every specific station.It is pretty obvious that we clearly have the data only from Thiseio and all the other data are merged and averaged.The differences between stations would proove problematic since you do not have any data.

And here again



And here again the same ''general'' assumption for Athens of tmax decrease from your own source!!

uhi.jpg



I am sorry for the personal tone but I do remember you claimed to be a sociologist and not a PhD holder in Meteorology.

In Psychology we say that when the motive is strong then the ego ''inflates'' .Now I would assume that it is not so much that you want to discredit the article but invalidate Mesogeiakos.I am wrong?

2 and 3.I was clearly refering to our conversation regarding the maximum temperatures,I believe that was our dialogue and I said that Thiseio is indeed representative of Athens.Look what the paper says

paper.jpg


You do remember that the July max for Thiseio is 33.1 right?Anyhow ,how can one simple station be representative of a unique geomorphologically speaking basin?Off course it cant.So there goes your second twisting of my words.

Again look what they say.Not a single comment from you about this.I wonder why?






Now in terms of the altitude....For the life of me I really can not understand why you keep on accepting 35m difference comparing a station at the other end of the historic center and a station on top of a hill. I mean do I speak for nothing???The altitude difference between Thiseio station and the bottom of the hill is 60 metres at least

Here you can find the official automatic National Observatory Station at Gkazi which is next to Thiseio station at the base of hill at an altitude of 50metres.Btw it is totally junk in my opinion and check the averages for July. It now stands at 29.5 higher than the other junk station of Peristeri!

-

In terms of the station being urban again this is not correct exactly.The paper calls it ''Urban on a hill''

4) But again your calculations simply come from merged averages without having the exact data for each and every station thus trying to overgeneralize has zero practical meaning since the error in your calculations is significant.



Now let's come to the essence which is discrediting Mesogeiakos and not the paper.Am I correct?And why do you feel compelled to do this?Am I somekind of a ''perceived'' threat to your ego?

[mesogeiakos]

[QUOTE=Borat;1058335502]

Please tell me who are the members of your phd committe, and provide also (in MP it is OK) their e-mail address, your academic institution and doctoral course and cycle, and your name and surname.

I will invite you phd advisors to read this topic and to evaluate you when discussing climatological facts here. It will be very funny exposing you to being ridiculed and kicked the ass by a sociologist in front of academics in climatology on one hand, and to the academic evaluation of your misreasoning in ways that are antipodes from methodological thinking, mis-representing, and sometimes also lying on the other hand.

Oh come on this is pretty low answer.You can do better

[mesogeiakos]

A quick note.

Watch the table in the 1985 paper
Immagine


Now let's compute the NOAA mean for 1860-1890

mean tmin1860-1890 = (8.23+27.41) / 2 = 17.82

Now let's compute the NOAA mean for 1958-1982:

mean1958-1982= (9.27+27.43) / 2 = 18.35

The first mean fits, but the second mean does not fit the value on the table.

Maybe a typo in the table, or, less likely, an effect of the calculation method.

But according to the NOAA calculation method, in the last years of the series (1958-1982) the overall mean computed for Thiseio is not equal to the 1860-1890, it is greater instead.

I want the raw data to check by my hands and my software that stuff.

Mesa, please after providing me the informations about your doctoral committe, let also me have the daily raw Thiseio data, if possible for the period 1860-2009. Thanks in advance.

you could very well email the Observatory.I am not in a position to know how these come up.If you think it is a mistake or a methodological irregularity you are welcome to do

[mesogeiakos]

Εcco Atene oggi...''solo'' 38.5 con previsti di 40.0 oggi!!!

Ath.jpg

[lothar]

Stucchevole il tentativo poco scientifico di confrontare mele con patate, con il solo e inutile scopo di dire che una città è la più calda dell'universo. Segnalo che io ho registrato una t media di 37,1° C ieri sotto l'ascella, pur sotto passata temporalesca.
Passatemi la battuta, giusto per riportare la discussione a un livello più umoristico.

[mesogeiakos]

Stucchevole il tentativo poco scientifico di confrontare mele con patate, con il solo e inutile scopo di dire che una città è la più calda dell'universo. Segnalo che io ho registrato una t media di 37,1° C ieri sotto l'ascella, pur sotto passata temporalesca.
Passatemi la battuta, giusto per riportare la discussione a un livello più umoristico.

Dove sei adesso?In Bulgaria?

Cosa e questo BG ?

[dedalus27]

Oggi, 24 Luglio 2010, temperature massima giornaliera:
Sigonella 41ºC, Larissa (Grecia) 40ºC, Badajoz (Spagna) 40ºC

Europa, 24 Luglio 2010.jpg

LUGLIO 2010 Temperature massime giornaliere in Spagna, Italia e Grecia, ordinati in ordine decrescente:

24/07/2010: Sigonella 41ºC, Larissa 40ºC (Elefsina 36ºC), Badajoz 40ºC
23/07/2010: Enna/Sigonella 39ºC, Cordoba 38ºC, Zante/Lamia/Larissa/Hellinikon 37ºC (Elefsina 36ºC)
22/07/2010: Capo Frasca 38ºC, Malaga 37ºC, Hellinikon 37ºC (Elefsina 36ºC)
21/07/2010: Malaga 37ºC, Sigonella 36ºC, Elefsina 35ºC
20/07/2010: Decimomannu 37ºC, Saragozza 36ºC, Hellenikon 36ºC (Elefsina 35ºC)
19/07/2010: Siviglia 38ºC, Decimomannu 36ºC, Samo 35ºC (Elefsina 34ºC)
18/07/2010: Cordoba 40ºC, Guidonia 38ºC, Lamia 36ºC (Elefsina 35ºC)
17/07/2010: Cordoba/Siviglia 40ºC, Decimomannu 40ºC, Araxos 36ºC (Elefsina 35ºC)
16/07/2010: Amendola 39ºC, Murcia 37ºC, Araxos 37ºC (Elefsina 33ºC)
15/07/2010: Decimomannu 40ºC, Lamia 38ºC (Elefsina 37ºC), Murcia 37ºC
14/07/2010: Murcia 39ºC, Trapani 38ºC, Elefsina 37ºC
13/07/2010: Malaga 38ºC, Alghero 37ºC, Larissa 36ºC (Elefsina 34ºC)
12/07/2010: Cordoba 38ºC, Larissa 36ºC (Elefsina 34ºC), Sigonella 35ºC
11/07/2010: Saragozza 39ºC, Decimomannu 38ºC, Larissa 34ºC (Elefsina 33ºC)
10/07/2010: Cordoba 41ºC, Roma-Urbe 37ºC, Lamia 33ºC (Elefsina 32ºC)
09/07/2010: Saragozza 40ºC, Firenze-Peretola 35ºC, Lamia 33ºC (Elefsina 30ºC)
08/07/2010: Saragozza/Almeria 40ºC, Firenze-Peretola 37ºC, Kalamata 33ºC (Elefsina 29ºC)
07/07/2010: Siviglia 40ºC, Decimomannu 36ºC, Elefsina 35ºC
06/07/2010: Cordoba 40ºC, Larissa 35ºC (Elefsina 33ºC), Decimomannu 34ºC
05/07/2010: Cordoba/Siviglia 41ºC, Amendola 37ºC, Elefsina 35ºC
04/07/2010: Cordoba/Siviglia 40ºC, Decimomannu 37ºC, Lamia 35ºC (Elefsina 34ºC)
03/07/2010: Cordoba 36ºC, Guidonia 35ºC, Elefsina 33ºC
02/07/2010: Cordoba 38ºC, Grosseto 35ºC, Mitilini 34ºC (Elefsina 33ºC)
01/07/2010: Cordoba/Badajoz 39ºC, Grosseto 35ºC, Samo 33ºC (Elefsina 31ºC)

La Grecia non ha ottenuto il primo posto nessun giorno nel mese di luglio:

Spagna: 17 giorni il primo posto
Italia: 6 giorni
Spagna/Italia (stessa temperatura): 1 giorno
Grecia: 0 giorno

Numero di giorni con temperatura pari/superiori 40°C:

Cordoba 6
Decimomannu 2
Larissa 1 (Elefsina 0)

[dedalus27]

This is what the Observatory says for Thiseio and not for wider Athens.


Immagine

Il link completo per l'isola di calore ad Atene:
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/...I%3E2.0.CO%3B2

Estratti dal link che non è stato commentato da Mesiogeiakos:

Heat Island Athens I.jpg

Heat Island Athens II.jpg

Heat Island Athens III.jpg

Heat Island Athens IV.jpg

Heat Island Athens V.jpg

Heat Island Athens VI.jpg

Anche nei periodi più freddi (1950-1980) le temperature minime hanno continuato ad aumentare in Atene!:

Heat Island Athens VII.jpg

Lo studio scientifico è stato condotto negli anni '80'. Attualmente, l'isola di calore è più forte in Atene: La città ha continuato a crescere.
E come assurdo negare l'effetto isola di calore nelle grandi città! Nessun meteorologo avrebbe osato fare una cosa simile.

[Lemine]

Dove sei adesso?In Bulgaria?

Cosa e questo BG ?

Provincia di Bergamo Lombardia